From a podcast interview featuring Tom Cassara, CEO of Agilis
In this episode of CEO Growth Talks, host Pete Hayes interviews Tom Cassara, CEO of Agilis, to discuss the financial consulting sector and Agilis' rise as a leader. Tom explains their distinctive approach to risk management and client-centric solutions for large asset holders. He reflects on the firm’s evolution post-management buyout from River and Mercantile, emphasizing creativity, collaboration, and team empowerment as drivers of growth. Tom also shares insights on leadership, talent retention, and fostering client trust for sustained success.
| “We’re looking to make a name for ourselves in this business and be considered on the same level as other large consulting firms. We are very excited about continuing down this path of expansion while adhering to our formula of creativity and teamwork.” - Tom Cassara |
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[Episode Transcript]
[00:00:00] Pete Hayes: Hello everyone, and welcome back to CEO Growth Talks. I'm Pete Hayes, your host and principal at Chief Outsiders. It's my pleasure to welcome Tom Cassara today from Agilis. He's the CEO, and Agilis is a financial services company. He's going to let us know right now about the kinds of products and services that they bring to market for their clients. So, Tom, tell us a little bit about Agilis.
[00:00:30] Tom Cassara: Thank you, and thank you for the opportunity to speak with you, Pete. So, Agilis—we are a consulting firm that focuses on risk management in terms of actuarial and investments. We work with institutional organizations that could be helping them manage various different pools of assets that they have: defined benefit, defined contribution, insurance pools, endowments, et cetera.
[00:00:53] Pete Hayes: Okay. So, who's a really good target for you? Who are you really trying to reach—size of companies, certain industries?
[00:00:58] Tom Cassara: Size of companies? Industries? We're pretty open to just about any industry. Most of our clients today are on the corporate side, but that's not to suggest that's our sole focus.
[00:01:07] Tom Cassara: We have wonderful clients that are publicly held as well. But our clients tend to be mid-sized to larger organizations today that have probably in the hands of 500 or more employees but probably most importantly, managing pools of assets that are 10 million or higher for various purposes.
[00:01:26] Pete Hayes: Okay. I think it's interesting to note—I would consider you a growth company. You guys are growing pretty well in a market that some people might say is tough.
[00:01:36] Tom Cassara: We've been very blessed. We have some wonderful people. This is a people business, and they've been fantastic about having great client relationships, and those clients are also helping us in our growth as well.
[00:01:48] Pete Hayes: Okay. We're gonna talk some more about that. But the formation of Agilis—tell us about it, 'cause the firm Agilis is really only a couple of years old. But tell us.
[00:01:55] Tom Cassara: We just had our two-year birthday. Prior to that, the organization itself has probably been in existence since the early two thousands.
[00:02:02] Tom Cassara: It started as a UK organization and, over the years, went through different name changes, most recently being River and Mercantile. But back in a little over two years ago, River and Mercantile made the decision to focus on a different core business for them, which was asset management, and they wished to sell off or stop the consulting aspects of it.
[00:02:25] Tom Cassara: In the U.S., we are a consulting firm, and so they approached us about doing a management buyout for the U.S. business, of which we gladly accepted the opportunity. So that was about two years ago, and we rebranded as Agilis at that point.
[00:02:40] Pete Hayes: Okay, and you took on the CEO role. How did that come about?
[00:02:45] Tom Cassara: I was overseeing the U.S. Consulting business prior to that. Maybe it was just that the team wanted to focus on clients, and I was the guy left running the business as well as the clients. I love to say it was some magical event.
[00:02:59] Pete Hayes: Tell me a little bit more about that. So, you've been essentially a practitioner working with clients, and you still are. I know you have to run the organization, but what kind of changes did you have to go through to be prepared to do that?
[00:03:11] Tom Cassara: There were changes overseeing the business, which, prior to that, as a division, there were a lot of things you didn't worry about.
[00:03:17] Tom Cassara: Yeah, you know, you didn't worry about things such as I.T. There was an I.T. group. You didn't worry about marketing. You didn't worry about the very legal aspects and accounting, and all of a sudden, now we had to manage all those processes as well as to make sure we had proper consultants who could help advise us on ourselves.
[00:03:36] Tom Cassara: So, it really became a team effort, and I think one of the biggest learnings I had through that process was you have really good people, and we just had to lean on our people to say, okay, somebody had to be CFO, somebody has to be in charge of marketing, somebody has to be in charge of this aspect or that aspect, and to start delegating a lot of that and having an agreement. This is what we're trying to achieve; this is where we're trying to go. Let's all work together and do that. We've been very fortunate.
[00:04:05] Pete Hayes: Wow. Tell me, in terms of your own enjoyment of the work, have there been things as the CEO that maybe have even surprised you in terms of the satisfaction that you get out of it?
[00:04:17] Tom Cassara: Oh, definitely. I have been just incredibly proud of the growth that we've achieved. I mean, to think about here is this relatively small organization trying to compete with some Fortune 500 organizations in the space. We had a number of successes over the years that proved that we could compete at that level.
[00:04:36] Tom Cassara: It's a matter of—I call it shoe leather—it's a matter of hitting the road and constantly trying to expand your brand to allow other organizations to see the talent that's within the organization.
[00:04:49] Pete Hayes: It's clear you're in a people business; it's kind of an obvious thing to say, "Oh, well, it starts with really, really great people," but how have you attracted them and kept them?
[00:04:58] Tom Cassara: We tried to create an atmosphere where senior consultants through the industry that we've all gotten to know over the years would find it attractive to come and work and hang a shingle under your roof, right? So we've tried hard to create an atmosphere where we're allowing our senior team to have the freedom to do idea generation and really to speak with their clients, understand the issues that their clients are having, and then to have a group of people that could come back to say, "What's the best way of approaching? We're solving problem A or problem B." We're not about trying to develop a particular solution and then telling people why they have a problem that they need that solution.
[00:05:43] Tom Cassara: We're more of the opposite. We really want to go back to the old school of listening first and understanding what the problem is, and then having the freedom to think about what is the proper solution without somebody telling us you need to sell a hundred of these or you need to sell fifty of these. We don't put those kinds of constraints on our people. We tell people your job is to have great client experiences and then, obviously, to try to grow your client base.
[00:06:12] Pete Hayes: So it sounds like your offerings are pretty flexible, and you give a lot of flexibility to your people to help assemble those solutions. Have there been any trends or shifts in the kinds of offerings that you've pivoted to or that have helped with your growth?
[00:06:26] Tom Cassara: I would say there hasn't been a major shift. Obviously, the economy—we have to react to what the economy is doing and what the economy is bringing. In terms of positioning client portfolios, we tend to do things with probably more tools in our toolbox than maybe some other consultants, and that has picked up some additional clients because they realize we're familiar with tools such as using derivatives, for example, in managing a portfolio that many other consultants haven't been as comfortable or knowledgeable in using.
[00:06:58] Tom Cassara: We’ve picked up a number of wonderful assignments through that expertise. But I think what's really helped us most is just being open to new ideas and new things. I'm trying to meet where clients' needs are and not being in a way that we're only going to offer this; we're only going to offer that in order to increase our own operating efficiencies.
[00:07:16] Pete Hayes: So, great people, a very flexible approach to solving the problems, and I think there was one more thing that you said was very key to your growth, maybe even your secret, because you are growing, you're bringing on new clients. What else is there?
[00:07:33] Tom Cassara: What else is there? Things that have worked best for us include asking clients for a referral. It sounds very simple. In fact, I think the insurance industry has mastered that over the years. But in our space, doing a little homework to know which clients are connected with whom, which is, these days and age, much easier than it was 10 or 20 years ago.
[00:07:55] Tom Cassara: Being very open, saying, "We're growing business; we're relatively new in this space in terms of the Angeles history, at least," and saying, "Would you be so open and so kind as to call this organization? We have some ideas that we think can help them, but we would love it if you could open that door for us."
[00:08:13] Tom Cassara: What we found is almost 100 percent of the time people will be willing to do that if you develop that relationship properly and that you've earned their trust, which is obviously our goal.
[00:08:25] Pete Hayes: So, there's the notion of asking for a referral, which seems pretty obvious, but what you described, the conditions for that were a relationship that's now a trustworthy relationship. You mentioned doing some work because you're not just saying, “May I have a referral?” but you're actually suggesting who the referral might be to.
[00:08:46] Tom Cassara: Correct. I find it best that if the more succinct and the exact you are in that task, the easier it is to make it for that individual to actually accomplish it. So, it's been a very good tool for us in terms of that, but it's all about the client's also willing to do it and the fact that we earn that from them.
[00:09:05] Pete Hayes: Yeah, definitely have to earn it. It doesn't come freely. It can be no or not yet. So, you're very deliberate with that. That's great. I know you haven't been all that long in the seat of the CEO. You've been a leader in your industry for some time. How would you describe your leadership style? What is Tom Cassara's leadership style?
[00:09:23] Tom Cassara: Well, that would be a more interesting question to ask the people that work with me, so I'm sure you'll get a lot of interesting answers over my career. I firmly believe that if you hire good people, you should allow them the flexibility to be good people to be good leaders. I've always tried to hire people around us that are bright, hardworking, energetic, and then not get in the way. I find too many leaders in my past thought they were maybe the smartest person in the room or that their way was the right way, and that may have been true. Maybe they were the smartest person or they had a good way of doing it, but they were missing the point of having people believe in themselves and having people believe in what you're trying to accomplish and allowing them the flexibility in the runway to do it.
[00:10:08] Tom Cassara: I think that's been the most powerful. So, people enjoy the atmosphere where they get to be part of the decision.
[00:10:15] Pete Hayes: So, you're describing a leadership style, I think, that is fostering a culture of flexibility. It feels like a little bit of independence and trust. You're trusting the people to make the decision.
[00:10:27] Pete Hayes: Independence. I mean, it's all those words: independence, trust, teamwork. Even from creating our reward systems, they are more team-oriented than they are individual-oriented. Any personal rewards that are for senior leader bonuses, etc., are more team-based than not. Obviously, you have to reflect individual accomplishments. We really try hard to say, “We're a team.” It's easier with our size than it is maybe if we were a thousand people, but at our size, working as a team towards a common goal is great.
[00:10:56] Tom Cassara: Once again, going back to what we want to be as an organization, which is a creative think tank with new ideas, working as a team is going to be a much better outcome than someone going on their own. They're going to be much better saying, “I got this situation. Have you seen this before? Let's talk about how best to solve it,” and getting four people's opinions is much better than one.
[00:11:16] Pete Hayes: Wow. Okay. So, this has been a working formula for you and the Agilis. Congratulations. Had there been any moments, either before the MBO or since, that were maybe “aha” moments of “we've learned this, now we're going to be able to take it forward”? Any particular?
[00:11:34] Tom Cassara: Sure. One of the biggest things getting used to is decision-making. Decision-making is obviously always critical in running a business, and everybody goes about it a little bit differently, but I think what we really learned quickly is one of the downsides of wanting to be a think tank. Why did it creative and idea-generating? Sometimes you think a little too long before you make a decision, and try to reach a balance where it was more about, “Guys, we need to make a decision.” What we quickly realized is sometimes not making a decision was the worst decision.
[00:12:08] Pete Hayes: Wow.
[00:12:08] Tom Cassara: And so either you make one quick and you live with the result. Sometimes you might get it wrong. In hindsight, by delaying a decision, sometimes that might've been the worst outcome. There's a general speed and amount of analysis you need to do, but you've got to be relatively faster than perhaps maybe your DNA would want to be.
[00:12:28] Pete Hayes: Tom, I don't know if you realize that you're outlining a book with this talk on. So, what's next?
[00:12:33] Tom Cassara: What's next is, obviously, we joke about where we want to go as a growth. We have a lot of different things that we want to accomplish, and some of them are far outrageous, but what's next for us is continuing down our path of looking to grow.
[00:12:46] Tom Cassara: We're looking to expand and hire additional senior leaders, who then generate more opportunities for our middle and newer staff, and the ability to hire more of that staff as well. We're looking to make a name for ourselves in this business and be considered on the same level as the other large consulting firms, albeit not with the same size at this point. If the opportunity comes about to have additional partners helping us with that, we'll be open to outcomes.
[00:13:17] Tom Cassara: But right now, we're very happy about going down this path, expanding, but sticking to our formula of creativity and teamwork.
[00:13:27] Pete Hayes: Everybody listening to this is very impressed that you've taken brand and you're making a name for yourself, maybe as more of a boutique player, but you're growing, you're adding people, you're giving them the flexibility that everybody looks for as a senior advisor or consultant in any industry that does that, and providing that environment. So congratulations, Tom.
[00:13:47] Tom Cassara: Well, thank you.
[00:13:48] Pete Hayes: Yeah. So, I'm going to wrap this up. Thank you for joining us at CEO Growth Talks, and we're going to see you next time. Thanks to my guest, Tom Cassara.
[00:13:57] Pete Hayes: Thanks everybody. We'll see you next time!
[00:13:59] Tom Cassara: Thank you.